Using the information we discussed during class, and your copy of Sound and Sense, interpret the author’s intent and the poetic technique used to achieve it.You may expand on the ideas posed during earlier post, but do not simply repeat information. Be conclusive and use substantiation to support claims.
1985 THE BOOK OF SAND
“The fear of infinity is a form of myopia that destroys the possibility of seeing the actual infinite, even though it in its highest form has created and sustains us, and in its secondary transfinite forms occurs all around us and even inhabits our minds.” – Georg Cantor
-Yes, Principal, I have ventured out of bounds.
I twisted the swing until the steel chain broke
and the globe has come unscrewed
on account of my wandering hands.
I was only playing kickball when
I found the patch of five-leaf clovers
and traced their origin from center field
to the drainage pipe at the edge of the cafeteria.
We are forever climbing, as Principal
of Gainfield Elementary you should know
the limits of the convoluted metal bars,
the diminishing span of the blacktop:
First the hyacinths, the broken tulips,
then the forsythia’s yellow glow,
the hole razored in the chain-link fence
and the miles of ragweed to mow and mow-
“The fear of infinity is a form of myopia that destroys the possibility of seeing the actual infinite, even though it in its highest form has created and sustains us, and in its secondary transfinite forms occurs all around us and even inhabits our minds.” – Georg Cantor
-Yes, Principal, I have ventured out of bounds.
I twisted the swing until the steel chain broke
and the globe has come unscrewed
on account of my wandering hands.
I was only playing kickball when
I found the patch of five-leaf clovers
and traced their origin from center field
to the drainage pipe at the edge of the cafeteria.
We are forever climbing, as Principal
of Gainfield Elementary you should know
the limits of the convoluted metal bars,
the diminishing span of the blacktop:
First the hyacinths, the broken tulips,
then the forsythia’s yellow glow,
the hole razored in the chain-link fence
and the miles of ragweed to mow and mow-
48 comments:
This poet alludes to identifiable topics to ensure that his poem can be understood by many readers. Since nearly everyone has attended school, he makes the speaker into a student speaking to his principal. He alludes to five leaf clovers and makes a mockery of the good luck, because four leaf clovers are so rare, one might as well search for one with five leaves. The poet also alludes to common school activities such as swings and a globe. However, the speaker has broken the steel chain on the swings and has unscrewed the globe from its hinges. The poet represents rebellion and destruction through the curiosity of the speaker. Finally, it alludes to growing flowers and plants, and connects them to how humans are always able to grow. The poet intends to show us that the only way to grow is to question our realities and be inquisitive.
The theme of this poem is the aspects of exploration. In the first stanza, he describes how he damaged equipment—either by testing it or by the curiosity personified in his “wandering hands.” This same preference of exploration to the bounds is shown in the second stanza, when the narrator disregards the game of kickball that he should be playing (symbolic of others’ expectations) to inspect a patch of clovers. In these examples, the narrator learned more about his surroundings—yet not in a way others wanted him to. This alludes to how exploration often leads to mistakes. In the third stanza, the narrator breaks his grammatical structure, which shows how, once again, he is breaking the rules. Finally, the diction used to describe the “hole razored in the chain-link fence” hints at how an opportunity is available to the narrator to explore beyond the normal limits, but the possibility to do some has come through a violent way.
The poem represents the student's search for knowledge and neverending exploration. The globe mentioned in the first stanza may very well represent the world itself, since the child has "ventured out of bounds." The poet attempts to relate to his audience through a commonality: attending school. Since nearly everyone has, he assumes that they can all relate. The speaker, however, is not like all the other readers-he represents intense curiosity displayed through rebellion. His rebellion is portrayed by breaking the steel chain on the swings and unscrewing the globe. The rebellion and exploration go together, though, as the child prefers to wander away from a conventional game of kickball to explore the origin of a five-leaf clover, mocking good luck (as Chris said.).
Kylet
Exploration, as described by Georg Cantor, is one of the greatest endeavors humans can partake. The “twisted” swing is an experiment that the student used to placate his curious mind. The “globe” that he refers to symbolically represents the trouble that our wandering minds may create. Various scientific experiments have yielded tremendous breakthroughs due to man’s curiosity, but at the same time could possibly end civilization (eg. Nuclear power, the atomic bomb, LHC). Science is not in the position to scrutinize the possible outcomes of discoveries and the ramifications on mankind. The narrator’s desire to explore leads him to follow the drainage pipe; he is ultimately tracing a question back to its origin.
Through strong diction, the author also purveys his intent. The “convoluted metal bars” conjure the image of being trapped inside a playground- a defined limit. The narrator however is: “forever climbing,” forever searching, forever achieving. The image of the “miles of ragweed” symbolically represents the information, the answers that have yet to be discovered by mankind. They invite the author and all humans to “mow” through the dense weeds to ascertain the answer.
Through allusions to the infinite possibilities for discovery and creation, this poet relates to readers by acknowledging mankind's insatiable thirst for knowledge and inner curiosity for exploration beyond the normal limits. The speaker has "ventured out of bounds," which demonstrates the inquiry of possibilities beyond the borders of the "chain-linked fence." Curiosity has been recognized as playing a pivotal role in a wide range of human endeavor, and has contributed to a variety of developments in areas such as science, math, and medicine. It is known to be an intrinsic motivator, and leads to the development of a range of investigative skills to help resolve conceptual conflicts by gathering additional information. By investigating the "five-leaf clovers" rather than playing a game of kick-ball, the speaker portrays a never-ending quest for answers and exploration to resolve inner questions. The speaker, motivated by curiosity and armed with the desire to explore, follows the clovers to the drainage pipe, ultimately tracing his question back to its origin, as Kyle explained. Through the destruction of the steel chain and the unscrewing of the globe, which represents the world itself, the speaker depicts the release of conformity and the eagerness of mankind to rebel against the norms of society in order to grasp wisdom and enlightenment of that which extends further than our current beliefs and truths, into the “miles of ragweed.” These weeds symbolically represent the unanswered questions and information that is yet to be discovered by mankind, and the speaker encourages us to “mow” through these weeds to attain answers. As the human race is "forever climbing," the "limits of the convoluted metal bars" of a familiar playground will not diminish or prevent the search for awareness and cognition of what lies beyond the explained and understood concepts of our world. The poet's strong diction in the last stanza helps reflect on the growth of humans through insight, curiosity, and inquisitiveness, and portrays the countless opportunities for advancement and proliferation if one asks questions and searches for higher knowledge with "wandering hands."
I believe this whole poem is full of satire. For example, when he addresses the principle as "as Principle of Gainsfield Elementary should know" he sort of challenges him and the principle's idea of what 'venturing out of bounds' is. Obviously he's answering a question that the principle must have asked him if the first line says 'yes' in the beginning so when he describes 'forever climbing..the convulated metal bars' I think he's mocking the idea that one can learn so much from an elementary school like the principle must think. He distinctly uses different forms of sentance structure to convey this sense of satire throughout the poem.
The speaker is a child who is unsure and wandering, looking for his way. In the first stanza, he has become angry with a globe and broke it. He does this because he is afraid of how big the world is and on account of his “fear of infinity.” He was with the other students playing kick ball when he began to search for five-leaf clovers. He uses five-leaf clovers to mock good luck as Chris said. He then leaves the kickball game to search for his own path. He then alludes to the idea that “we are forever climbing.” It represents how we are always searching for something more in life and trying to find it. The third stanza also shows how he feels confined by the metal bars and the smallness of the blacktop. In the final stanza the speaker uses “the hole razored in the chain-link fence and the miles of ragweed” to show that he can go somewhere else and that it is not to late to change. There are miles of ragweed to still be explored. The student is ultimately showing that he does not want to be like everyone else, but to break away from society to explore what else is out there.
What the author is trying to teach the reader of this poem is that life is all about the never ending quest for information and knowledge. This knowledge, he asserts, can only be obtained by those who are relentless, and not afraid to “go out of bounds” and test the limits not only of their teachers and mentors but of their own minds. The author is able to convey this message effectively through the use of many metaphors. One example of this is his reference to the “diminishing span of the blacktop” which undoubtedly represents the intellectual limits of most people. Through his words, the author suggests that in order to be successful you must venture away from this “blacktop” and expand knowledge through curiosity and asking questions. This overall message of the work can be easily interpreted by most readers becomes of the allusion the other makes to school, which dominates the entire poem. As many have said, this is an experience many humans share and can identify with, therefore it is easier to interpret and understand.
As others have stated one central theme of these poems is exploration. They all use allegory to narrate something that describes a larger meaning about curiosity. The five-leaf clovers piece is a great example of curiosity and learning. They are a rare encounter and it is unknown why sometimes there are four or even five-leaf clovers. The path of these clovers come from a drainage pipe, which symbolizes a fountain of knowledge. The persons curiosity lead them to the answer which was spilling out of a drainage pipe. Also, there is some paradox in this piece when the author says "I was only playing kickball," making the game of kickball seem so petty compared to the knowledge we was about to find. The student who had so much curiosity "the globe came unscrewed" is another example of how there is an endless amount of questions to be answered and the best thing someone can do is question. In this poem the author uses imagery of the globe coming unscrewed and the wandering hands. Also, the first part is of the fear of infinity which is a form of myopia, or nearsightedness, when objects close are seen clear, but when looking into the distance they become unclear. Georg Cantor describes that the infinity is nothing to fear. He thinks that everyone should look into the distance without fear, but with curiosity. He uses imagery as a tool to describe the fear of infinity as near and curiosity for knowledge as far off. In the piece about the principal, there is as well imagery of distorted metal bars and diminishing blacktop. This also is meant to be sarcastic that a principal knows the limits. No one knows the limits so just because someone hold authority does not necessarily give them the ability to see the limits. In the last part, it describes all types of flowers and then portrays the steps to faulty knowledge first there is a hyacinths which is doing fine, followed by broken tulips which are damaged, then yellow forsythia which means they are withering away, and last a hole in the fence and miles of ragweed to mow. This is comparative to a hole or fault growing in someones knowledge and a search through miles and miles of weeds, or useless things to finally find answers. The author in this part also uses rhyme with "glow" and "mow and mow".
This poem is somewhat of a metaphor. Moreover it is a metaphor for the world and the boundaries we put on ourselves and then we distrust ourselves to such an extent that we appoint others to enforce these laws we put on ourselves. The principal stands for the authority we impose upon ourselves and the child represents us. We are explaining to our superiors (who we appointed) why our boundaries need to be expanded. Or why we need be excused from the consequences of stepping out of bounds. This could apply to any social scene too, and our need to be affirmed by our peers, that our reasons be legitimized by others. The principal's voice being absent from the poem says that the only point of view that matters as of now is the speakers, they shouldn't even be talking to the principal but knowing why they did what they did and living with it. This poet is telling us that we need not explain ourselves when it is harmless, when our actions are on a whim and we need no affirmation.
The basis for the poem is the boundaries of the playground, which the student feels the need to describe to his principal, with some humor added on. It seems as if the kid is trying to find meaning in the outside world. He wanders away from “only playing kickball,” to jokingly finding a five-leaf clover, which probably doesn’t even exist in nature. At the third stanza, the student switches gears, away from describing his journeys around the playground, to his argument for less authority, and more self-control. “The limits of the convoluted metal bars,” is just a metaphor for authority across the world, which is only restricting. The use of school allows almost all readers to connect to the poem, making it much easier to draw intellectual ideas from. This poem also shares a central theme of literature of breaking away from society, just as Kurtz did in Heart of Darkness. The child doesn’t stay confined to only see what’s inside the “chain-link fence,” but he sees the hole as stated in the second to last line of the poem. He views the landscape of “miles of ragweed,” and can’t wait to break free. He knows the principal would understand this, which is why he discusses this with him, but not his peers.
Through the allusion of a delinquent school child, the speaker presents the idea of human curiosity and how it will lead to destruction. Because of the child’s “wandering hands” he had broken the swing and the globe. He questioned the principal’s reason for thinking he was wrong to wander. Human curiosity is endless. Therefore, the satire of the principle, “as Principal of Gainfield Elementary you should know the limits of the convoluted metal bars, the diminishing span of the blacktop,” the speaker ridicules those who try to stop curiosity. People are “forever climbing”, forever searching. When an obstacle obstructs the path, humans go through it: “the hole razored in the chain-link fence.” Destruction will result from human curiosity.
In this poem the poet uses metaphor extensively to convey his theme of the infinite search for something greater. He does this by explaining that the confines of school cannot dampen students’ imagination. “[…] The globe has come unscrewed
on account of my wandering hands.” Nothing can confine creativity to any boundary. He states that of all people teachers should know that there is no end to learning. Also, the poet uses flowers to represent land that has not yet been covered. “The hole razored in the chain-link fence, and the miles of ragweed to mow and mow.” This represents breaking through and the miles of undiscovered territory. Without innovation, society as a whole cannot grow.
This poem employs an extended metaphor comparing childhood and the school play-yard to adulthood and the world. The chain-link fence that surrounds the yard represents the boundaries of the planet that humans perpetually try to "razor" through. I feel that the poet is making a statement about how humans treat the world, noting that the mutated 5-leaved cloves originated from the run-off of the school cafeteria. He makes a statement about human ambition, that as we climb the ladder, we disregard the limitations and slowly take over the "diminishing blacktop." Being a young child, the narrator alerts the principal of what is occurring. This is ironic because in the adult world, we do not have a "principal" to report to and that will take care of problems. I feel that this poem is a powerful statement about mankind and the Earth.
Like Chris Seymour stated before, the poet who wrote this poet alludes a topic that the majority of people are familiar with. By making the narrator a student speaking to the principle it gives the readers a feeling that one can connect with. The poet also ridicules the idea of luck, and what items emanate luck. By picking five leaf clovers, the poet is mocking the entire idea of luck, basically saying that if a four leaf clover is lucky then a five leaf clover will certainly be superior. The narrator, a student, like I stated previously is very interested in learning and yearns to venture outside of the borders of his school. But because they are rules, the students (us) cannot venture beyond the boundaries that are set by our elders. By breaking through the chain link fence the student has the ability to discover more. Without the pushing of boundaries society could not develop. One would be stuck at a standstill not learning anything new and wanting more. This poem represents a student’s will for learning. The whole idea of school and those boundaries that are set in school are meant to be broken, because they are only limits, and there is no limit to what a student can learn and achieve in school.
Georg Cantor expresses curiosity and knowledge along with exploration in this dramatic poem, through the use of literary devices. The tone is serious but informal as demonstrated by, "Yes, Principal, I have ventured out of bounds." (line 1) and relates to how this speaker understands but feels there should be more. "We are forever climbing, as Principal...you should know the limits of convoluted metal bars, the diminishing span of the blacktop." (lines 9-12) The diction choice: "ventured" (line 1), "wandering" (line 4), "traced" (line 7), and "miles" (line 16) expresses the curiosity the speaker feels, and the hyperbole, "I twisted the swing until the steel chain broke, "(line 2) symbolizes the speaker's want to find more, whether that be what is beyond the boundaries or understanding or knowledge.
Through the author’s effective use of imagery throughout the poem, his purpose is revealed. He discusses exploration as he has “ventured out of bounds” and broken away through the use of his “wandering hands.” The author’s intent is to show the infinity of exploration and possible discovery. “The miles of ragweed to mow and mow” represents what is left to be explored by whoever breaks through “the limits of the convoluted metal bars.” As demonstrated by the poem, “we are forever climbing,” ignoring limits to explore the infinite universe.
The poet's intention for this poem was to discuss humans desire for knowledge. We feel the need to "venture out of bounds," in order to fulfill our curiosity. The speaker's "wandering hands" appear to get him in trouble. However, Cantor believes that we must explore and expand our horizons instead of following society's "norms." Cantor uses a hyperbole to demonstrate the importance of exploration: "I twisted the swing until the steel chain broke." Catnor also chooses to use diction such as "ventured", "wandering," traced,"limits", and "climing" to further enhance his overall theme that we, as a species, "are forever climbing."
The search for knowledge is a central theme in this poem by Georg Cantor. The speaker is a young child looking to find his way, venturing outside of “the bounds.” The first stanza shows he has become angry, representing rebellion through his curiosity. In the second stanza, the “five leaf clovers,” ridicule good luck and fortune that many people believe come from four leaf clovers. When the speaker informs us that “we are forever climbing,” it means we continuously seek better things, not accepting and being happy with what we have at the moment. “The hole razored in the chain-link fence and the miles of ragweed to mow and mow,” explains that it may be hard to break free and go explore elsewhere, but when you do there is so much to find.
As rules and order comform society into what people should do and what they should not do, many feel as though they want to separate themselves, explore what is beyond our knowledge. This is evident in the poem. The main character describes how he has "ventured out of bounds", showing how he has stepped away from the norm. The speaker effectively uses imagery to help the reader see the rebellious and adventurous nature of the protagonist: "I found the patch of five-leaf clovers/
and traced their origin from center field/
to the drainage pipe at the edge of the cafeteria." Also, the speaker also suggests how the even though there are limits, one can continue until breaking point. "We are forever climbing...the limits of the convoluted metal bars,/
the diminishing span of the blacktop." One will continue to explore their curiousity to find themselves until they feel they have reached a limit.
Through the poem, the poet expresses his feeling that we should never settle, we should never have limits. He displays this through the thought process of an elementary student, which we know is always curious. The authors theme of no limits is expressed when the student states, "Yes, Principal, I have ventured out of bounds.
I twisted the swing until the steel chain broke." The students curiousity was not suppressed, but rather exemplified by his wandering actions. The student also says, "we are always climbing," expressing the theme discussed many times, that we are always in search for something better, always trying to "climb" higher until we reach the top, but there truly is no top.
The poet’s intent is to write about the familiarity that people have with things involving an elementary school. Children are always searching for answers always wanting to know more, Georg Cantor alludes to this by writing about the confides of the metal bars of the playground Also how he is forever climbing, never receiving the answers he desires. He also writes about how the child has “found the patch of five-leaf clovers” which is metaphorically representing the search for something that is impossible to find. As Kyle had said the speaker also alludes to the “miles of ragweed”, showing that there is sill an abundance of unanswered questions in the world.
I analyzed the poem stanza by stanza. Each one used symbolism and metaphors to describe the author’s intent.
I thought the first stanza was describing the curiosity of an elementary school girl. When I was a young girl, I used to sit on the swing and twist around until the chains were so twisted I was sure they would break. My mother would always yell at me to stop because otherwise I would not be able to use the swing anymore. However, children are known to push limits and be curious about the surrounding world and I think that is what the author’s intent was in the first stanza.
In the second stanza, the author shows how easily children are distracted and preoccupied with life’s trifles. The poem states that the girl was playing kickball when she was distracted by a patch of five-leaf clovers. This curiosity led the girl from center field to the drainage pipe at the edge of the cafeteria. This also shows that beautiful things can grow out of something bad. The author’s intent with this was to show that when something bad happens, something good always comes out of it.
The third stanza shows how we, as humans, are always pushing limits and climbing to reach new heights. The author shows that as a child, the metal bars and the playground are the limits and no one is permitted to go outside of them. However, growing up, the blacktop “diminishes” which symbolizes the limits lessening because as adults there are fewer restrictions.
The fourth stanza describes how the fence between the ragweed and the gorgeous flowers is suppressing the desire and the need to reach the beauty on the other side. The author’s intent is that the holes in the fence allow people to see what they are capable of doing but the fence itself restrains them from actually achieving it.
The author wrote this poem with the intent that the reader would learn that life is a never-ending process of trying to learn new information. He draws a comparison between the search for learning and exploration to show how people make mistakes but it causes them to learn more. The author effectively relates to his audience by writing about a student. This allows his intended audience to more easily understand what he is trying to portray to his readers. However, he is different than his audience because his curiosity is much larger than his audiences’ and this curiosity causes him to rebel. He relates his rebellious side to his exploration side because his rebellious side causes him to explore new things
The quote mentions the inability to accurately perceive the infinite, the author later mirrors that belief in her choices of using “forever climbing” and “diminishing span” in the third stanza. She’s saying that people can only gain a limited amount of knowledge regarding the future from a particular point in their life. It always seems to be a listless expansion into nothingness. Moreover, the poem reflects on the constant activity surrounding everything. The child’s curious nature clearly illustrates the continuous activity in life because he is bustling about, engaging himself in activities ignored by the other students.
However, like Mallory, I think this poem’s meaning has a little twist. Although it may not necessarily be satire, I think the author is trying to convey a message beyond the clichéd “learning is power” ritual.
Regardless, it’s probable that the author is saying that as a student, children are confined to a tiny area with limited exploration opportunities. However, once maturity has been reached, adults “razor” their way through the barrier between adolescence and adulthood. And only then can they become fully aware of the infinite possibilities there are in the world (i.e. “the miles of ragweed to mow and mow-”).
Nevertheless, I don’t think the author wants people to recognize what amazing power information and knowledge have. I think the setting of a schoolyard and use of a headmaster doesn’t always have to signify learning. Yet, if she does intend for the audience to take away a newfound appreciation for learning then I think this poem is stupid and unneeded. There are enough people and poems out there pushing for that kind of stuff.
The intent of the author was to show how the schooling system, often times, holds students back from exploring new things. The author is trying to explain that not everything can be learned inside the school grounds and that the most important things are learned beyond the "chain-link fence." In order to show his meaning, the author employs the use of satire. He talks about all the things that schools look down upon but discusses them in a demeaning tone. He is trying to say that these boundaries that schools provide are actually halting students from learning as much as they should be. The author also makes his poem much more applicable because he is talking about a student. His intended audience (i.e. ourselves) can relate to this and understand it better. He is reaching out to students and letting them know that we should all be curious and explore the world beyond the confines of school.
This poem is about exploration and schooling and how, despite the presumed intent of school teachings, the latter does not in fact foster the precursor. The narrator begins by directing his words to the Principal, letting it be known to him that he (the student) has gone beyond the limits, that he has done what common classroom posters advocate and has opened up and explored. He gives examples, all of which are prime preschool actions that may have ended you up in the corner with a time-out. Later on in the poem, the author addresses the Principal again, but this time, in a more openly satirical manner. He begins by saying “we are forever climbing,” but finishes by alluding to the idea that really, he, as the principal, has a better idea of confinement and a willingness to stay bound than he has of exploration. The last bit, I think, just goes on to illustrate how much exploring there is to be done.
This poem explains how humans, especially children, have a desire to explore the unknown regardless of the obstacles that impede their search for knowledge. In the poem, the school and the chain link fence symbolize inhibitors that attempt to restrict children from the real world, where there are no intellectual limits. While the Principle intends to confine the children from the curiosities in the real world, the narrator is able to break away from these restrictions, which is represented by the hole in the fence, and with this rebellion is able grow in terms of maturity and intelligence. The narrator can now discover and explore the "ragweed": knowledge that has not yet been reached or founded by human beings.
The poem written by Georg Cantor is about how if a person stays within their boundaries and doesn't strive away from the norm, that they will not keep growing and gain success and creativity. In the first stanza his wandering hands showed his creativity. His actions showed experimentation and related to taking risks and not following the standard boring course but trying to find success through a different path. In the second stanza the poet states the source of the "five-leaf" clover was a drain pipe at the edge of the cafeteria. I think the poet was trying to show that the idea of luck doesn't come from a magical and perfect place but rather luck comes about through inventive thinking, creative ideas, and hard work which all lead to success. I feel the overall theme of the poem was the poet was trying to show the reader that success is developed by creative thinking, risk taking, and not just by luck or chance.
I think this post is positively hilarious. Reading all of your answers actually made me LOL (that's laugh out loud for all you idiots). Let's just take a brief look at what you all said the theme was: exploration, or breaking those molds that society puts us in. HOLY CRAP LOOK AT THAT. Wait...everyone had the same answer for the blog? What? You mean...you created the mold for yourself?
Okay i realize i just lost about 98% of you, so let me step back. It is true that this piece of poetry eloquently describes mankind's desire for discovery. It is true that this "child" has broken the chains of societal norms and accomplished things on his own. However, i find it absolutely delicious that you all chose to echo the words of your previous classmates in your answers. You created the societal norms themselves by answering in the same voice, just worded differently each time. You all chose not to explore.
In case you're still lost, i'll just settle for calling you a sheep. It's a metaphor.
So yeah, i thought this was a brilliant post on the part of your illustrious teacher, Mr. Nicholas Kowgios. I assume that when he posted it he knew the probably outcome of your answers, and i hope he got as much enjoyment out of it as i did.
p.s. did anyone actually look up the words used in Cantor's quote or those used by Big K? Myopia? Come on now, no one knew that one. Transfinite? No way. Look them up. They're great words to drop at parties, sports games, galla events, etc.
Oh and p.p.s. Read more than the first entry people. Chris S was wrong with his whole "mockery of luck" thing. The author is clearly referring to how many discoveries are made by mistake. The kid is not rebelling against the kickball game, he was playing it when he found the patch of clovers. He was doing something else and stumbled across something wonderful, which then took him in a new direction. Think accidental, but major, scientific breakthroughs here.
Thank you for your wisdom, Devil's Advocate. However, I must ask, why?
Is it that you couldn't impress others in your college classes, so you decided to come back to high school to assure yourself of your wisdom?
Maybe you were desperate for some Kowgios attention- couldn't get enough stickers when you were a senior?
Whatever your reason, you have caught us. We are clearly not smart, clever, or quick enough to compete with the previous years of Mr. Kowgios's class.
I give up. You have inspired me to go into the middle school and point out every flaw made by the ignorant 8th graders. What a great way to fuel my ego!
aaahhh i see we have a challenger!
well "ChrisS," i first want to say that my attack on your assertion was not a personal one, merely pointing out the willingness of your peers to assume everything you say is true. you should feel powerful to know that they accept your opinion as fact so readily. use that. use that well.
also, no. to all of your questions, no. i actually excel in all of my classes in college, and i won the sticker contest with kowgios. i do this for my own enjoyment. it's not that i feel the need to bestow my extensive knowledge on you. i just enjoy mixing the pot. how else will you be able to challenge the world around you until you are shown it can be done?
as to ego, you clearly have got me. i am smarter than you, and probably better looking. no, definitely better looking. it does make me feel good to post my brilliance on this blog, and none of your insults will do me harm or halt the addition of my two cents to your topics. and if you feel the desire to dominate "ignorant 8th graders," so be it. more power to you.
oh and try to not let my response to you go to your head. i am only acknowledging your existence because i am bored and nothing is on tv.
happy holidays!
-The D.A.
Ah Devil's Advocate, you are clever.
Although it would have been more fun to disregard your plea for attention and observe how you would react, I was weak and bit. At first, I really thought you were just some bored guy trying to show us all how smart you are, but you just might have a bit more substance.
Though you may have won that battle with the poem, I will win the war (cliché lolol).
For some reason, you wear a mask. A man who claims such high intelligence and looks- yet hides his identity like a coward. This shocked me. Sure, my initial response could have been to “own” you, but I was much more curious who you were. Luckily, you decided to play along.
1) We have confirmed you are a college student ( I was just fishing when I assumed)
2) We know you won the sticker contest
There are not many sticker contest winners, Devil’s Advocate. Your necessity to brag may have spoiled your secret.
I will expose you, DA.
PS- I know you may be wondering- Chris, why are you wasting your time with this? Well, I probably have just as big of an ego as you. Not only did you insult my intelligence, by my looks too!
and i now know something about you, sir.
you will believe everything i say.
Oh? Now isn't this a delicious little drama we have here?
Though I will agree with this "Devil's Advocate" in his criticism of your--the Student's--responses. Furthermore his attempts at inciting, shall we say, missed there mark? Instead of catching the attention of the ones this person wished to call out, they instead garner the attention of the one person who, in no way, should have been upset by the post.
Yes, Mister chrisS, if you had the lucidity to actually comprehend the second post by Devil's Advocate you would have discovered that it was merely an honest criticism of your analysis. I will admit that Devil's Advocate could have put what he said in a much less...flame baiting manner (Saying you were flat out "wrong" was too strong of an attack, despite serving its purposes), but your response defeats the purpose of this blog.
You, Mister chrisS, had the opportunity to propagate a discussion that was proposed by Devil's Advocate. However, you instead chose to make personal attacks over the internet (Obviously because the internet is serious business). Have you forgotten what this blog was for? Is your Ego actually so fragile that you simply could not answer Devil's Advocate's challenge in any other way than to feed the embers of this flame war?
And that is an end to my inquisition. I am done calling you out, and I am done feeding Advocate's Ego (Though I will agree with his, somewhat limited, analysis on the poem. I would offer more that would break me away from the sheep "mold", but I despise most forms of poetry). I shall not call out for these so called "readers" to be burned like the literary heretics they are. Mostly because your posts both degenerated into friendly banter rather than two hot-blooded individuals fighting for what they believe is correct (Because both of you abandoned your original argument for the sake of DISCOVERING YOUR IDENTITIES!).
I only hope that this discussion can be put back on track, if only for the sake of serving its original purpose.
Yours Truly,
A Mister Ryan
P.S. Happy Holidays to all you lucky people who still get snow! May the winter be a bountiful respite for you all!
Dear Devil's Advocate,
I did not read anyone else's comments before posting on this blog. Your artless assertion of our class repeating or regurgitating Chris or anyone else's ideas was incorrect. Get your facts straight.
I believe you are failing miserably in making Chris look like he is an idiot. I think you are attempting to spark a discussion and you are playing "devil's advocate." (Cute choice for a name, by the way. It is clever. That I will admit.) Regardless of your one success for intelligence, your effort was a failure. It didn't work and you just tried to tell us that we were dumb. But I am here to inform you that, well, you are dumb.
In conclusion, if you wish to stir up conversation, you are off to a fairly good start. You must be new at this though, so I shall give you the chance. You intrigue me Devil's Advocate. I am curious as to what will become of this.
beckyr,
He is not incorrect, nor is he right, in his assumptions merely because evidence to either statement cannot be provided. Of course, I expect many like you to come in droves and tell their tale of how they had not read anybody's post before regurgitating the same information that was evident in previous posters. For you to deny outright that anyone did not do what Devil's Advocate has said is outright folly.
And yes, I will agree with you. His effort was a failure. Instead of attracting discussion, he instead instigated the trolls to come out of hiding from beneath their bridges to defend themselves. Yes, I am talking about you. Also, for all your talk about "getting facts straight", I have yet to see a single one besides your statement that you, and only you, did not blatantly vomit on this thread with somebody else's regurgitated analysis. Evidence, my dear Watson, is the key to truth.
Can I ask you a question? Here's another one. Who are you to speak for the class? I guess I can understand that you wish to protect the honor (so to speak)of your hive mind-esque classmates, but your post reeks of the desire to prove that you alone were not wrong. Your childish arguments really hold no ground in this discussion.
Here, I'll quote Devil's Advocate to help out your pitiful reading comprehension skills.
"You created the societal norms themselves by answering in the same voice, just worded differently each time. You all chose not to explore."
Read this. Now read the poem. Again. Because for you to act in such a reactionary manner (violently, at that) means that you did not understand the poster nor the original text. I believe (and this is where I can be wrong to several degrees) that Devil's Advocate is using your class as an experiment to try and show all of you how far you have fallen away from the original intent of this discussion.
Exploration.
That rarely happened here (Note that I said rarely. There is the exception of a few of you who have, I believe, the ability to think under their own power). You are proving that you all, as a student body, are moving further away from the individualistic culture we were born into, and furthermore evolving into a collectivist approach that is hindering your ability to think critically.
I don't think Devil's Advocate is condemning all of you simply because you all chose to say the same thing. That, in itself, doesn't matter. It is in the manner in which everything was said. You are all (arguably) individuals. I ask for you to act like one. It is entirely too likely that you all will have the same points to make. The difference here is their relevance to you all. I beseech you to explore the words, explore your points. What do these words mean to you, as intellectuals?
Good Day.
-Ryan
While the debate has been interesting to read I think we lost sight of what the poem is and whats its value is to the readers. I think the quote lays open the key points before we even divulge into the poetry. What exactly is Cantor insinuating when he discusses the inability to perceive the infinite in anything other than its secondary forms? Well, the poem lays to bear that exact answer. Every metaphor each of you has referred to is a transfinite and finite secondary form of the infinite. Lets pull this back down a little bit because the depth in this poem is incredible and I really want to emphasize a few things here. The author (or poet) is asking you to ponder what infinity is and furthermore our “myopia” that disables us to be cognizant of it (assuming it is something to be cognizant of). It is indeed very true that there are tones of exploration and life seeking in the poem but all this references to is the forms in which we are able to perceive infinity. In reality it doesn't matter whether you perceive them spontaneously as the child does playing kickball or the Principal who sets “out of bounds” they are both forms; they fail to transcend to uninhibited, all encompassing infinity. A polarity exists for sure but if a polarity exists you have yet to reach the source. You can be inquisitive or you can play by the rules but either way you are still abiding by the secondary forms. The child is very much a victim of forms by the very fact that he views the unscrewing of the globe as being a globe unscrewed to begin with. The poet, in a very layered manner, is trying to show the experience of infinity is formless so to experience the infinity that “created and sustains us” one need just be.
Hope this redirects
Best
Tara
Beautifully written, Tara. A bit dense, but the point is excessively valid.
And I would like to apologize to both chrisS and beckyr (Richards?). Calling both of you out was...amateurish on my part, and only served to instigate the argument further, which was not my original intention. Please ignore the slights I have made to your names.
And now I'll stop lurking and get on with my sad, sad life.
Ja ne!
-Ryan
So, it appears to me that this little debacle between seniors and alumnae has spiraled into a petty squabble between graduates. Clearly, this boring, monotonous quarrel does not belong here. The former students are only here to ignite a spark and “make us think”, “expand our scope”, “challenge our beliefs”. Well, that’s crap. They like to act as if they were not amongst that group of students who were mimicking previous posts on the blog. They like to go on with their superior attitude, beckoning us to retaliate with wit and immaturity. Their high esteem is comical, and yet, quite pitiable.
Tara was the only graduate to attempt to aid in our understanding of the poem, whereas Ms. Devil’s Advocate solely taunted and mocked.
Devils advocate,
You are just a complete idiot. This blog is called "Poetry Interpretation" and the point of the assignment was to...wait...interpret the poem. No one said anything about actually practicing the theme of the poem, so somehow you totally made that up.
It is a stupid poetry assignment for a grade...nothing else...nothing more. Maybe some people will get more out of it, but probably 60 % of the class just wants to get a good grade and move on. I know that's all I am ever trying to do.
Don't think you are superior to us because somehow you comprehend and build more meaning from a piece of
literature because you probably didn't have any friends in high school, and are still failing to do so in college. Same goes to Ryan and Tara.
My values lay in other places, not some 7th period AP Literature class, which is just another grade on the report card for me. This assignment was just more homework limiting the time I have to live my senior year.
Obviously, you all are wasting your college years because I know I'm going to be out with friends, whom I care about much more, then a poetry assignment some seniors in my old high school are doing for a homework grade, of all things.
By the way, I meant no offense at all towards Mr. Kowgios. He makes AP Lit the best possible time it could be.
But some unknown graduates should not try to tell us we didn't look deeper into the poem. Stop trying to be Mr. Kowgios.
Dear Stefano,
I realize that the amount of time it has taken out of my busy schedule to look at this blog post is truly worth it when I read comments like yours.
Hopefully you don't take every class in college as "just another grade on your transcript." You will be sure to waste $50,000 of your parent's money every year and never learn how to mature your intellect past your current high school (?) level.
Good luck getting by on your friends!
wu tang clan aint nothin' to mess with
You graduates are not very nice. You are using very condescending tones and I don't believe that I appreciate that. It is possible to argue points without harshness and brutality.
First of all, Devil's Advocates first post has an incorrect statement. You said that you know that you lost 98% of those who posted in front of you, but that is impossible. There were only 29 posts before you, all of which were from different people. 98% of those people would be 28.42 people, which is impossible, unless someone understand 42% of what you were saying. I just don't buy it.
I don't think that Chris is wrong about the mockery of luck, but I also believe that you are right about discoveries being made by mistake. America was founded by mistake, Super Glue was founded by mistake (it was supposed to be an idea for a surgery without stitching), Kate and Leopold met by mistake in "Kate and Leopold." Leopold was never supposed to travel through time.
I believe that the author is saying that all great discoveries are made by mistake, but I also believe that the patch of five-leaf clovers is a mockery of those discoveries. We have a holiday for a man who discovered America by mistake. He killed all the Indians that were living on the land that he found. The author is mocking the lucky discoveries because we think of those discoveries as heroic, when all we do is "diminish the span of the blacktop."
I hope you will try to be nicer to the students you wrangle with in the future.
Dear people,
I find it very funny how formal everyone is being in this arguement. I really don't think it matters if you view things one way or another thats really what life is. As for it being construed as a pathetic waste of time on the alumnae's part (is that how you spell it?) I mean whatever. Some people like video games some like being internet trolls whatever floats your boat. So Here is a poem to further the discussion of poetry, which I have a deep love for.
I want to kill you, kill you dead,
I want to be in that pretty little
head.
I want to drink all your blood,
I want to play with your guts,
In the mud.
I want to knife, knife your face.
And smother with kisses,
that bloody space.
So when you go to bed at night,
And something doesn't feel quite right.
Its just me waiting,
In delight.
So please do cry,
Howl and moan.
And don't forget to smile,
Cause you're not alone.
I'll be there,
To feast on your bones.
Some people try, try to be sick,
And they write weird things, write em up quick.
But I truly have no greater dream,
Than to hear,
Hear you scream.
:D
The poet uses specific details from her childhood to enhance her ideas about infinity. As a child, she remembers feilds which seemed endless. When she was small, the unknown, or the feilds of tall grass symbolized infinity. After revisiting the feild at an older age, the feilds seemed smaller and less significant. Now, the feild represents a mere memory. Infinity changes as we grow and realize certain truths. The globe in the poem could represent the realization that the unknown will become the known, and the once endless feild, will one day become a small area of grass waiting to be mowed.
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